IT is absolutely ridiculous for you to imply that users of OS X need to upgrade to 10.4.2 to correct blatant errors in the JAVA implementation for 10.3.9 . There are many computer users such as myself that prefer to use our machines to get work done rather than as a platform for experimenting with bleeding edge code. I currently work with over a dozen music applications on my Mac and have no desire whatsoever to upgrade to 10.4.2 so that I can re-purchase broken sotware or spend hours applying patches or hunting for new drivers or even getting used to new "features", or even doing without because the small company that made it is gone. Apple released "Panther" and sold it to the public as a finished product that they should stand by, not abandon for the next thing and leave 20 to 30 percent of their customers wondering what happened. This sort of behavior reminds me of another software manufacturer that is notorious for the sloppiest code on the planet. I also find the attitude that computer users need to have the latest versions of software to be disproprtionatly supportive of the software manufacturers and (also the computer manufacturers) and a burden on computer users. If the software is seriously lacking, or flawed when it is sold, the consumer is essentially a beta tester for the manufacturer; this is unnacceptable. It is the job of the software manufacturer to convince me of the necessity of spending MY time upgrading their software. How so many people have been brainwashed into this mindless upgrading is beyond me. As for this issue with Limewire, I still don't have a working copy of Limewire on my machine because I made the terrible assumption based on history that Apple only provides patches that improve the quality of their software; seeing as how this has now been proved wrong, I have already turned off the auto-updating portion of software update and I will treat these suggested upgrades the same way I treat Microsoft's upgrades - with a VERY large grain of salt.