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Old February 24th, 2004
LeeWare LeeWare is offline
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Join Date: August 4th, 2002
Location: Chicago, USA
Posts: 321
LeeWare is a great assister to others; your light through the dark tunnel
Post Answers to your Questions

I'll address each one of your concerns in turn.

- Do you believe LimeWire to be a potential kazza in terms of lawsuits?

I assume you mean can and will they be sued by the RIAA or the MPAA. Let me

answer by saying that all P2P services are vulnerable to law suits by the

industry. These are attacks against the technology and the technology providers

not the root causes of the problem. These are the things that I don't think is

fair. I also assume that your question is looking for an answer that would

suggest why hasn't the MPAA or RIAA sued LimeWire. I would have to start by

answering the question why the RIAA or MPAA are after Kazaa.

#1 They are the biggest file sharing network around = [Biggest Threat]
LimeWire / Gnutella is relatively small when compaired to other P2P

Networks. LimeWire would be the largest of the Gnutella- based P2P players as

their user base usually lingers in the range of 180 - 250K users. These

numbers are slightly exaggerated but fair. More realistically, more like 180 -

210K. However, keep in mind this is a personal guestimate.


- Do you know whether LimeWire is exactly the same as Kazaa?

exactly the same? Only conceptually as well as all other P2P applications.
But more specifically absolutely not -- the underlying technology is different,

their Philosopical approach to file sharing is different. For example:

Kazaa's grand scheme appears to be-- the old bait and switch routine. Gather

the largest userbase though any means necessary and then use the consumers PCs

as a distribution network for partners without compensating the end-users. Sell

advertising rights to the highest bidder. Their grand scheme is very much like

the cable companies who are turning into ISPs. Once they establish a monopoly

they will dictate the terms of use which will always be in their best

interests. Oh by the way, did I mention this is why the MPAA and RIAA dislike

these guys because they feel that their business model is largely contructed

around the the fact the people can get Movies and Music [much of it

copyrighted] This is one of the means they [Kazaa] uses to build its large

userbase.

LimeWire on the other hand, at least for right now, appears to be more

community oriented their stated goals are constructed around the idea of

creating a good P2P network. They have a track record of doing a lot for the
P2P community in general.

LimeWire was pretty much the first P2P program I used and believe me I've tried

all of the major ones. But more than that, LimeWire is the only P2P program

I've ever felt compelled to actually buy. I have purchased several version of

the product over time.

- Would I use LimeWire personally?

Let me give you some information:

Library size: 406 files 41.83.0GB | Files Distributed: 4,089,594 [4.0 million]

About 80% of the number of files distributed are via LimeWire's servents
The rest are via Overnet or Shareaza and some DC++


- Do you know any way to observe the copyright stipulations of music that one

wishes to download, WITHOUT actually buying the CD (over the internet

preferably)?

Not really, however there is--

http://www.launch.com [You can't download the songs or the videos but you can

pretty much watch or listen as much as you like. Some people will argue about

the limited selection.]

- What do you expect the outcome of this/these cases to be?

Cases against infringers will end up being a winning proposition for the MPAA

and RIAA they have good agents collecting good solid evidence against

infringers. I think that once a person finds themselves in court over

infringment and they see the evidence it's hard to fight it. Score 1 for the

RIAA and the MPAA.


Cases against P2P network operators will continue to be lost by the MPAA and

RIAA on the ground that the technology can't and should not be restricted

because it does in fact have non-infringing uses and the fact the some people

use the software to pirate content is not the P2P operators responsibility.
Score 1 for the P2P operators.

However, the P2P operators can put themselves in a pickle if they offer too

many protections for the users of their software products. because doing so

would make it easier for the MPAA and the RIAA to prove / argue that they [P2P

operators] not only have the ability but an interest in faciliating piracy.

Leading to a contributory copyright infringment judgment against a P2P

operation. If this happens against any distributed services you can pretty

much kiss P2P good-bye. This would be the beginning of very slippery-slope.

Because people would begin bringing law suits against the most mundane uses of

technology furthermore the P2P operators are likely to argue that they are

unfairly being singled out and continue to argue they if you do this to us then

X, Y and Z should also be held to these standards etc.

Finally, this leads me to the cases involving ISPs standing up against the RIAA

and the MPAA over the identities of suspected pirates. As I've said before the

ISP are not trying to protect the consumers they by law [DMCA] have to warn and

if necessary cut off access to infringing content. Therefore, they would gladly

turn over the information in fact, I would image many of them do.

When ISPs allow themselves to be dragged into court over giving up the IDs of

suspected pirates it is for primarily two reasons.

#1 They are protecting their own interests. They don't want to get sued by

their customers for violating their own privacy agreements.

#2 They don't want to allocate the resources [people, time and money] towards

policing the network. It unfairly burdens them to do this.

This is like some cases involving the BSA - they represent software

manufactures. Every few years or in states where software piracy is a big issue

the mail out threating letters to all of the business--warning them of the

hefty fines for software piracy. Some companies run out an buy software. Other

look at the documentation and laugh because they know that this organization

without a court order can't just waltz into a business and conduct an audit.

Therefore some ISPs decide to challenge the requests for information on these

grounds. They are basically saying if you want us to give up IDs and other

information you better show up with a court order.

People in the P2P community shouldn't confuse this challenge with the notion

that the ISPs want to protect them from being sued because they got caught

pirating content.

- What do wish the outcome of this/these cases to be?

That they leave the technology vendors alone and go after the individual

infringers. They need to workout via the courts and the ISPs the best ways to

do this.

- Are you a lawyer?

No, but as an SSA I work with lawyers on the alignment of legal policies with

technology issues. For example, the last question I was asked by a legal team was...Can P2P operators block Infringing content and if so, how?
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LeeWare Development
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Last edited by LeeWare; February 24th, 2004 at 11:58 PM.
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