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*Having Fun yet I've seen the entire little debates and all that i've learned out of the entire thing is that you are better off beating your head on the wall until your unconcious than to talk to the people who bitch and complain about adware and encrypted packets. Because their only goal is to hurt Bearshare and its creator in any way possible by using any means possible. I mean how the people here make unrealistic and outragoues demands and constantly lie and try to pass unproven rumors off as fact makes it ovious. People here have no and never had any intention to work in any way to resolve any of the issues. I mean a few will try to **** be off my calling me a suck up and whatever stupid lil excuse there small brains can think up. But what do i care iam not here to impress a bunch of paranoid froots. The worst thing that could happen to the people complaining here is if Vinnie doesnt respond to them anymore. Because then they would run out of things to complain and there lies will become increasling more pathetic and outragoues until no one believes a damn thing they say. The average user should know not to trust half the crap online and i doubt that a smart person seeing this for the first time would really believe them without any proof. Since they have no proof nothing they say can really hurt Bearshare. |
Here here! no censorship here? well, there should be! what a bunch of lies and propaganda.... how boring... does too does too does too does not does too does too does too....... please people, get informed! Don't go by rumor and inuendo... BearShare is the best proggie out, It has completely satisfied all my sharing needs and expectations! Remember, it's about community! Share and share alike.... Peace. |
Re: Having Fun yet Hallo Sephiroth: [...to talk to the people who bitch and complain about adware and encrypted packets.] Even Vinnie himself admitted that he learned, and he said that he appreciated the feedback and took this as a possibility to improve the ways he tries to earn his money. Do you think the browser model would have evolved without all the critique from anxious users? I have criticised him sometimes before, and I have never done this in an insulting tone. [I mean a few will try to **** be off my calling me a suck up and] Let this accusation stay where it belongs: It originated in Bearshare.net, neither here nor in zeropaid, as far as I know. This is also the cause why bearshare.net is read-only for me; for my taste there are way too many flamers. It is not my goal here to defend the guy/girl who did this, in fact I regarded this mutilation of your name as highly tasteless. Please see the 'other side' too: Some bearshare 'fans' were also much too eager to insult. [The worst thing that could happen to the people complaining here is if Vinnie doesnt respond...] Worse for whom? Do you really think this issues, justified or not, will be solved if you wrap them into dead silence? [I mean how the people here make unrealistic and outragoues demands and constantly lie....] Well. What should I say except: Do not take some for all. And, what is an outrageous demand? I have seen lots of postings from people who only _asked_ about these issues and were insulted in return. And, after all I think if the anxious questions would have been answered earlier and in a hmmm... more appropriate style many of the flame wars would not have ignited. Ok, maybe this is yesterday's snow, admitted. Sephiroth, as you generalized, i did a little bit also. I always appreciated and respected your insult-free and constructive style of posting, and I hope you will stay so. But do not pour the child out with the bath*, and do distinguish between flamers and good-willing but anxious users. Greetings..... *Very hard for me to translate german proverbs, but I hope you understand none the less ;) |
but... I have seen lots of postings from people who only _asked_ about these issues and were insulted in return. And, after all I think if the anxious questions would have been answered earlier and in a hmmm... more appropriate style many of the flame wars would not have ignited. how many times does it need to be explained? You can't expect Vinnie to go through the rigamaroll every time someone posts something derogatory, just because they "didn't know"... |
Re: but... Hallo: My point here, was not 'not explained', it was 'insulted'. Yes, in many cases the insults were first, and the answers came later. If you need examples go and search the archived threads eg. in zeropaid. [how many times does it need to be explained?] Easy. Once, at least. Sometimes more than once. If you went into a forum, do you search all archived threads before posting? Hmmm? Especially as a newbie? I do not presume you are one, only for example? [no censorship here? well, there should be! what a bunch of lies and propaganda.... how boring...] Well, if you are so bored, why did you lose some of your time with posting here? And I do not expect Vinnie to do this alone all the time, but I expect him to do this once and in a polite style, so that the explanation could be carried further by interested people. If some people will invest only half the time in explaining than in flaming this would be easy accomplished. It is no shame to explain, even I do so sometimes *grin*. Greetings.... |
Re: A few questions Quote:
I have a one big question about the so-called "spy packets" which Mr. Falco has not seen fit to properly explain. Perhaps you will be able to respond in an adult manner and satisfy my concerns. Why are these data packets necessary at all? I understand that they are used to trigger the update notice that Bearshare displays when a new version is available. But the question is, why has Mr. Falco felt it necessary to munge the Gnutella Protocol to accomplish this? Why can't users simply check for themselves at the Bearshare site to see if a new version is available. This is the way it is done most everywhere else. Or at the very least make this an option that the user can choose and approve or disapprove, like Symantec does when it *ASKS* it's users if they would *LIKE* to install Liveupdate with their AntiVirus products. Or the way that Microsoft does when it *ASKS* it's users if they would like to use the automated Windows Update features. Instead, Mr. Falco makes modifications to the Gnutella Protocol, uses encrypted data packets, and does not ask his users if they even *WANT* to be notified about new versions. Why is its necessary to force this on the users. This question has NEVER BEEN ADDRESSED. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, have an answer to it? Certainly you can understand the reason many are concerned about this. There is a tremendous potential for abuse in the use of these encrypted packets. We are told that they are harmless, but how can we be SURE that they are harmless? We are expected to take Mr. Falco's word for this. But unfortuantely Mr. Falco has not done much here recently to bolster his credibility. So what's a mother to do? Perhaps you may be able to shed some light on this? |
Everyone is here! With Sephiroth here I think it's complete, everyones over here! Great! I like this forum better, my posts make it past 24hrs. You can't even say "boo" over there without getting deleted. No wonder no improvements have happened for months now, 2.0.4 looks and works just like 2.2.4 too much time spent on the delete button. I am helping all the people I can here cause it covers more than just one client and thats better for Gnutella not just one commercial interest. Glad someone posted this link, I was getting sick of it over there. I am amazed it wasn't deleted before I could see it. The packets arn't needed, people have posted many ways you could do without them, but like always, issue not addressed. Most of this is FACT, someone posted actual packet data. The spyware is real and only the sender of the packets knows what is in them. Trust is a problem. People will never read old archived messages because that would take time so they will always ask a question over and over. Just like people who say it's not spyware or there are no secret packets, they haven't read much. As for the upgrade notice, I see many, many older versions running out there. Maybe it's the spyware issue, or just not wanting to be on the debug team without being asked, but you can't force people to upgrade. Maybe as you get older these things are clearer, do they still teach about hitler? maybe thats the problem? |
Most of this is FACT, someone posted actual packet data hahaha hohoho this is exactly what i mean... SOMEONE posted it, now it's fact! well, MOSTLY fact according to this guy.... Geez, and i got my info from the actual programmer... what was i thinking... are we still teaching hitler in school? Man, just when i thought we were going to have an intellegent conversation.... You had me there for a second! I actually thought you were sincere at first! Not to mention the disrepect you are paying to millions of Jews! You are not the only person to use this comparison, and it's pathetic.... truly pathetic... I'm still looking for the PROOF that we are being spied on.... And i haven't found it yet... just a bunch of lies and inuendo...... That only works for OJ..... |
welcome Bearshare cheerleading squad (now go away) Just when I thought we were going to have some intelligent conversation on this board... BarfWader has to start up the flamewars again! Note the hot-button terms: "hitler" (should be capitalized, by the way), "pathetic", "lies", "innuendo", etc. I wish this board had an IGNORE button for trolls like this. |
Re: Everyone is here! Quote:
How often do you know of anyone being deleted "over there"? What makes you so sure that deleting is happening soooo much that you feel the need for such comments? Far as I know there have been two or three actual deletions "over there", and never an entire thread, only individual posts. Please let's stop the sensationalizing of facts, people. It only causes friction and delays any progress toward resolving the issues. |
Re: Re: Everyone is here! Quote:
As one who actually did have a post censored on BearshareNet, and for no good reason I might add (I will quote the original post again so that you can judge for yourself), I've got to say that it's a pretty shitty way for a developer to deal with members of his user base. I also had a post cancelled on the alt.gnutella usenet group, and although I can't prove that Vinnie cancelled the post, I can't imagine anyone else in this little community who had either the will or the ability to do it. You've got to admit that Vinnie got waaay out of hand over this issue. Let me refresh your memory with a couple of choice quotes from Mr. Falco: 1 - BearshareNet "Ad Supported Software" forum: May-24-01, 07:03 AM (EST) >Sorry bodhi, I had to delete your post. >Reason: you complained about encrypted packets. 2 - Gnutelluims Bearshare Forum, thread entitled "A warning to all about BearShare": 05-25-2001 07:19 AM (GMT) >FFF**** you, bodhi >Come back and post on BearShare.Net, so I can delete your > sorry a$$ again." 3 - Gnutelluims Bearshare Forum, thread entitled "Heavy handed moderation at BearshareNet": 05-25-2001 07:15 AM (GMT) >Yeah I deleted your post. >You are a nincompoop. >The nature and content of the messages was CLEARLY >EXPLAINED! >You are full of caca!!! >...snip... >If you posted this $hit in my forum I would delete it >instantly because its garbage. >...snip... >So what do you have to say for yourself now, jerk? Does this sound like adult behavior to you? Here, once again, is the complete text of the post that elicited these responses: [In followup to a thread in BearshareNet about Mr. Falco's threats to shut down the Adware forum and censor posts] "Vinnie's attitude recently is the reason that have uninstalled Bearshare from my box and have moved to Gnucleus. I have always been disturbed by the spyware bundling, but put up with it because I thought Bearshare was the best servent available. Then I found out about the encrypted message packets that Bearshare sends out and that disturbed me more. I have never heard a pausible explanation for these encrypted messages from Vinnie to this date. Finally, within the past week, Vinnie has posted several messages which include vitriolic comments about folks who may have questiond his judgement in using the spyware and has threatened to shut down this forum. That was enough for me. I decided to try a couple of servents that I had never tried to find an alternative to Bearshare and I stumbled upon Gnucleus. Let me tell you folks, Gnucleus is as good, if not better than Bearshare. In many ways it IS better than Bearshare. It is more stable, seems to return more search results which are better organized, and the download resume features are a lot more intuitve. But best of all, there is NO SPYWARE, it sends no encrypted packets, and is OPEN SOURCE. I uninstalled Bearshare and I'm not looking back. Gnucleus is serving all my Gnutella needs without all the hassle and worry associated with Bearshare. I'd urge anyone who has doubts about Bearshare to check it out. Hope this helps..." As you can painly see this post was neither malicious nor abusive. I was merely stating my objections to Vinnie's threats to shut down the Adware Forum, and his intention to begin a program of, as he put it, "heavy handed moderation" on BearshareNet. I was also upset over Vinnie's recent behavior and was excited about a good alternative to Bearshare. I don't believe that this post deserved deletion. Do you? |
Found it! "I have never heard a pausible explanation for these encrypted messages from Vinnie to this date" This was bull - or rather, the straw that broke the camel's back. Why don't you go do your research again and find all the messages that preceding your posting which explain the messages. Somehow, these were conveniently "left out". |
Re: Re: Re: Everyone is here! Bodhi, Thanks for your reply, and for the refresher course. I am short on time this evening, so I am unable to reply back as fully as I'd like, but here's the short story...... The three examples of Vinnie's attitudinal posts you copied above all revolve around the one post by you that was deleted, and no more than one. Vinnie's way of expressing himself is a different issue. The issue I raised was that of people trying to create the illusion there's been a lot of censorship in the BearShare forums. You've given only one example of censorship so far - that of deleting your post. Perhaps someone can show one or two more examples, but beyond that.......? As for the reprint of your deleted post: It heavily accused Bearshare of containing spyware, it attemped to create more paranoia about the encrypted packets, and it accused Vinnie of never giving a "plausible explanation" concerning them. 1) The FACT is (http://www.abctella.com) Bearshare contains no spyware, which is starting to be proven by articles like the one at abctella.com. 2) The encrypted packets are not spy packets, and I'm becoming convinced that no matter now many times Vinnie tries to explain it in I don't know how many ways, certain people are just going to keep badgering the issue just because they like controversy and upheaval - nothing more. Digging around a little more will reveal the information legitimate seekers of answers are looking for. 3) As just stated, Vinnie has given plenty of "plausible explanation", not only about the packets but also about the bundled 'wares in Bearshare. You asked me this question: "I don't believe that this post deserved deletion. Do you?" My answer: Maybe, maybe not. Undoubtedly there are other ways to have handled it, but at the moment I suppose Vinnie was having a knee-jerk reaction to that hammer that keeps banging on his head 24/7... namely, uninformed paranoid users who jump to conclusions without doing their homework first! (I'm not necessarily referring to you here) I run a major e-commerce biz and right now I'm in the middle of some work that can't wait 'til morning. Hope this helped you see a slightly bigger picture than the one you've been looking at. Brotaris |
Re: Found it! Quote:
First I'd like to applaud you for not resorting to profanity and name-calling. It's a lot more mature than many of your recent posts. Perhaps I was too harsh and went too far in that sentence. What I meant to say was that although you had explained what the encrypted packets were used for, I had never seen a plausible explanation of why you felt it *SO* necessary to use them in the first place. Today you finally gave an explanation for this. It is a business decision designed to give you a leg up on your competition. Now although I may not like what you are doing, you certainly have a legal right to do it, but I still don't support it. Surely you can understand why deleting this post from the forum made me so angry, particularly since it came on the heels of your "heavy-handed moderation" comment and your threat to shut down the forum because you didn't like the fact that some of your users were unhappy with your tactics. And particulary since one of the main subjects of the post was these very threats. I think at this point we should just agree to disagree. I really liked Bearshare. I think it's a really fine gnutella servent. I said that in my original post. But I don't like the direction you are taking Bearshare in and I will not support it. I will continue to urge new users to try out open source servents and I will do my best to explain why it is important to keep the gnutella network as open as it can possibly be. I will also continue to urge you to reconsider what you are doing with Bearshare, and with the protocol. I don't think you will benefit from what you are doing in the long run, and it will only serve to fragment the network. I only hope you are mature enough to really consider what I, and others, are telling you. |
Re: Re: Found it! Quote:
Bodhi |
Re: Re: Found it! I agree so fully to this post (which I presume came from Bodhi, who sometimes seems to be too lazy to log in :-) as if I have written it by myself. My respect to Bodhi. Greetings...... |
Re: Re: Re: Found it! [For some reason this forum software keeps logging me out and many of my posts come up as "Unregistered" after I submit them.] Had this problem too, but not anymore since I allowed this site to set a cookie... [The above post did come from me...] I supposed this... Greetings.... |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Everyone is here! Brotaris - Thank you for your reasoned reply. I will address a couple of points you raise, but the bulk of what I want to say at this point is contained in my reply to Vinnie posted above. Quote:
I think the thing that got many of the folks over there so angry was the *threat* of censorship. The "...if you don't shut up and play nice I'm going to shut your mouths for you..." attitude was really obnoxious. Quote:
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deleted messages I had some of my messages deleted, they were there for a few hours then were gone, yes they were critical of vinnies ever loving attitude we have all come to love and admire, no explanation, no proof on my end because I don't save every session to disk, so how would anyone know he did it? then this guy wants proof, get a life, now you are pushing it. that is why this forum is so much better, you will know what is really going on and I expect that deleted posts won't be from people critical of the software. I was thinking that maybe a bad aaasss bear attitude might be a good thing, the only gnutella client with a bad attitude, try to get help and get flamed, try to say something nice and get flamed, its fun and its free, try the new badbear.net forums! could be a marketing tool, they do it on radio. |
at last! Quote:
Thank you Bodhi, This is the most mature, intelligent post i've seen on this topic! You understand it, but don't like it... I can deal with that! In the end, we're all on the same team... Believe it or not! :) Later folks! I'm done with this topic for good! |
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