Your idea is morally good but, I think your missing the 'big picture'.

Your idea of an 'opensource protocol' is mis-guided. Gnutella IS an open protocol. the use of the protocol is free for anyone to use. The idea that one cannot recoup expenses incured to foreword their program/servant cannot be controlled by you.

It would be nice to have a network created by an open protocol that allowed only those who provided a free servants to connect but, we already have it(Gnutella), with one exception. The word 'open' does not guarrantee that only free servants can use the protocol. because free is free and companies like Vinnie's(bearshare) like free stuff to and cannot help but to put their hands in the cookie jar.

Basically what i'm saying is this:

the use of an 'opensource' protocol is just that, free to use that protocol for communication between servants, but you cannot stop someone from offering(for money) a servant that uses that 'open' protocol. remember, the protocol is just the way the servants communicate, it is not the servant itself, and as was stated in a post above, if you start blocking other servants, be them free or a for cost servant, then you are no better than bearshare, which prefers to connect to itself(other bearshares).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DM
[B]Morpheus is also open source!

Morgwen

Its worth mentioning that just because its open source doesnt mean its 100% free.. Limewire is a living example. Morpheous added in a few banner ads into gnucleus so they arent "free."

DM is right to create the very best you need money and resources even linux companies like Red Hat and Mandrake make $$$ alot of the money they make goes into development of linux. Some Linux projects survive on donations and etc to make money. Somehow i find it hard to believe that many here pushing for open source gnutella network would donate any money to aid in it.

As for the open source network.. Great if some people like you morgwen, moak, your groupies and others think that a 100% open source/open network is the key then by all means create a network thats just open source and open network instead of trying to force radical changes on gnutella like that every program must be open source the whole commerical programs are bad, "dont partcipate with bearshare or limewire" and etc..

Do i personally think it will work.. No based on what happen on gnutella in the past. You see before bearshare and limewire were gnutella programs gnutella was really ran on really entirely on open source and small closed source programs.. The network was losing users, there was no organization amoung the developers at all and the network almost died. I still remember the news stories predicting the death of gnutella in a couple of months..

I didnt work back then and i dont think it will work now.. But thats me..

However if strict standards are forced then really its no different than fasttrack with all programs doing the same thing but have different names.. Also i hope that it starts its own development and not just be an exact copy of gnutella..

Who said that Morpheus is free?

Seph read the posts before you post!

Morpheus has ads like limewire and bearshare!

BUT because Limewire is open source there is a CLEAN limewire version! I think there will be a CLEAN Morpheus versiontoo or the people will use Gnucleus!

But bearshare... who really cares about it!

Morgwen

Just posting that just because its open source doesnt mean its not commerical..

Will programs like limewire and morpheous which are commerical programs be welcomed on this open source network if they choose? I believe that users can create private networks with limewire and change the handshake in options..

"clean" verisons are not the source of any development all they do is take open source and even closed source programs and repackage it into a new installer.

Plenty of users care about Bearshare of course not many visit here. Maybe its because this forum is unwelcoming to bearshare users.. The phrase that was once spread about this forum being "open to all users of gnutella" seems more like a marketing ploy than reality. Because this place really isnt welcoming to everybody.. Look at all the bashing of bearshare and even pathetic personal attacks against its developer that goes on..

I dont care i support a better file sharing [www.zeropaid.com]site[/url] where all users & opinions really are welcome..

Everybody is welcome here... and everybody is allowed to say his opinion here... like on zeropaid too! But you should now there are always two sides of view not only yours!

I saw VERY MANY flamers against vinnie there...

Ans you vinnie comes here and flame on the users and they flame back its human... they didn´t flame to other developers - I wonder why? Perhaps they are more diplomatic? Its normal that the users don´t agree with all developer decisions but it is NOT normal that the developer flame on them!!!

And nobody here flamed on a bearshare user...

And yes I think you and vinnie are trolls, because you say I am and I say you are so what? But you and vinnie are not users...

So tell me your point? Do you think we want now to pray Vinnie is the best like zeropaid started? I think everybody is allowed to say his opinion, the only rule is to say it without flames - I edit "ALL" posts with flames Vinnies too!

Now go to zeropaid if you think they tell there more bearshare propaganda!

Morgwen

Oh yes, since Sean is on ZP... Bearshare doesn't name ZP evil anymore. what a suprising change... but, Sean is a mod without background and speaking holy every single word of Vinnieborg.

We have learned what greed does for gnutella and now it's time for the greed to leave.
It would be easier for limewire and bearshare to leave, they already have their own little network.

BEARSHARE CONNECT/0.6
LIMEWIRE CONNECT/0.6

This would be easy. But they use the efforts of others as a back up plan to keep their market happy and so no way they are leaving.
See what morpheus did when they had a problem? Jump on the first thing they could grab to keep their $$$ market.
Think of what would happen if the "BearShare network" was just bear only and vinnie put out a new version that screwed up downloads. People would jump the boat in a minute. Can't have $$$ that!

Greed sucks and doesn't belong on gnutella. So either the $$$ clients leave, or the "outsiders" have to go.

With the connect string specifically stating OPENSOURCE it's hard for some closed source greedy people to come there, and with the rule/law of no $$ profit applied by the clients blocking them, then there will be no war for market share and no clustering, domination and so on.
Those who share files know that their files are going to other people without some third party making a buck off their efforts.
I don't see anything wrong with several of the clients with most of the base code being the same. Some may have features that others don't, and that is ok too.
Someone is always going to try to make a buck off of this, so clients have to block it as much as is possible or greed will slip in again.

Now, on to the other problem with greed.

Let's say, and just for fun, a court orders bearshare to send out a spy packet that shuts off all bearshare clients, and you know the RIAA would love to do this right now. We don't know if the spy packets can do that, but I bet it's in there because vinnie loves to control everything and hates it when you run old copies of his software.
Or worse, vinnie is offered a new $500,000 corporate housing unit on the beach if he spies on every user and reports that to the RIAA or is paid to screw things up or just leave.
If it was open source, he couldn't have spy packets or spy on people because everyone would see it in his code. The way it is now we have busted him on several things he has done, who knows what else is in there.
If it was open source someone could offer the author $$$ but for what? He can't do anything and if he did someone else would post a patch in 10 minutes to take it out.

The RIAA/MPAA greedmongers have no control over open source not for profit clients!

If they shut one site down that has the code, another will pop up in the next minute. Plus the code can be shared over the network. Let them try to stop that.
Limewire is a little different, and they aren't clustering as bad as vinnie is, and they can't because people would see it in the code and laugh them out of existence. They have to make a buck and so they come up with full blown XML because they have 5 developers working on it and know that small developers can't compete. It backfired!
The problem is even vinnie with all his $$ can't code the XML easy so no one else is using it, thus limewire only works with limewire and it's all a bunch of marketing/investor hype anyway.
Plus it's a waste of time for everyone to develop their own code when you could have one set of code as a base and have people put features on top of that. Then it doesn't take a whole corporation with CFO's and paper pushers all over the place to make a few new features.
Everyone will be welcome to download a free client and get on the OpenSource P2P Net. We hope they will also contribute some ideas, code or even "skins" to improve the client(s).
BearShare hasn't promoted Gnutella, it has promoted "The Bear$hare Network". It's not a community, it's a BearShare community. About the same with Limewire but not as bad.
Commercial clients will be blocked. Greed doesn't work in this situation. The RIAA works on greed and legally can't do anything if a buck isn't made. They can pull dirty tricks like DOS attacks, but then we have them by the balls.

P2P is about sharing, let's share the code, share some ideas and keep it free!

Besides all the politics, this network is moving forward. It's not a sporting event, it's not that this will be the #1 "winning" network. It's not that it will have the most files available or even the most users. It's not a race.
It's that this network will be the only "open and free" P2P network left after everyone gets sued or forced out of existence. Then all the MP3 sharing people will jump on the bandwagon, when it's the last resort, just like they always do.

So Morgwen, Moak and other people with a vision of the future, are your nodes ready yet?

Even a modem user could post his IP every day if it changes to help kick this off. Most cable modems keep the same IP for more than 30 days. Very small amount of bandwidth at first anyway so you can run this along with the other programs you like to run.
Nice thing about this board, you can post your IP without signing in if you like your privacy.

How many other developers have people posting borg pictures and constant stream of bashing?? I cant name any others. Hell find me anyone who could put up with people flaming them constantly for a very long time and not get ****ed once. Developers are humans too...

Do i think you should edit all no but maybe as moderator you could grow up and not partcipate in them..

BTW dont flame zeropaid. Ive been visiting that site almost a year before bearshare was out.. All programs are treated equally, nothing is influenced and most of it has to do with users summiting news and partcipating on the site.

You just told me to leave so im not welcome here, and called me a troll because i dont agree with you on many things so your comment that everyone is welcome here and everyone is allowed to say their opinion is oviously a lie.

Hey Sephiroth,you bored by any chance?trying to drag Gnutella Forums down to the same level as Bearshare.net?It's not gonna happen pal,so move on,deal with it and get back to sucking up to Vinnie(promoting Bearshare)