Gnutella Forums  

Go Back   Gnutella Forums > Gnutella News and Gnutelliums Forums > General Gnutella Development Discussion
Register FAQ The Twelve Commandments Members List Calendar Arcade Find the Best VPN Today's Posts

General Gnutella Development Discussion For general discussion about Gnutella development.


Welcome To Gnutella Forums

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, fun aspects such as the image caption contest and play in the arcade, and access many other special features after your registration and email confirmation. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! (click here) (Note: we use Yandex mail server so make sure yandex is not on your email filter or blocklist.) Confirmation emails might be found in your Junk folder, especially for Yahoo or GMail.

If you have any problems with the Gnutella Forum registration process or your Gnutella Forum account login, please contact us (this is not for program use questions.) Your email address must be legitimate and verified before becoming a full member of the forums. Please be sure to disable any spam filters you may have for our website, so that email messages can reach you.
Note: Any other issue with registration, etc., send a Personal Message (PM) to one of the active Administrators: Lord of the Rings or Birdy.

Once registered but before posting, members MUST READ the FORUM RULES (click here) and members should include System details - help us to help you (click on blue link) in their posts if their problem relates to using the program. Whilst forum helpers are happy to help where they can, without these system details your post might be ignored. And wise to read How to create a New Thread

Thank you

If you are a Spammer click here.
This is not a business advertising forum, all member profiles with business advertising will be banned, all their posts removed. Spamming is illegal in many countries of the world. Guests and search engines cannot view member profiles.



           Deutsch?              Español?                  Français?                   Nederlands?
   Hilfe in Deutsch,   Ayuda en español,   Aide en français et LimeWire en françaisHulp in het Nederlands

Forum Rules

Support Forums

Before you post to one of the specific Client Help and Support Conferences in Gnutella Client Forums please look through other threads and Stickies that may answer your questions. Most problems are not new. The Search function is most useful. Also the red Stickies have answers to the most commonly asked questions. (over 90 percent).
If your problem is not resolved by a search of the forums, please take the next step and post in the appropriate forum. There are many members who will be glad to help.
If you are new to the world of file sharing please do not be shy! Everyone was ‘new’ when they first started.

When posting, please include details for:
Your Operating System ....... Your version of your Gnutella Client (* this is important for helping solve problems) ....... Your Internet connection (56K, Cable, DSL) ....... The exact error message, if one pops up
Any other relevant information that you think may help ....... Try to make your post descriptive, specific, and clear so members can quickly and efficiently help you. To aid helpers in solving download/upload problems, LimeWire and Frostwire users must specify whether they are downloading a torrent file or a file from the Gnutella network.
Members need to supply these details >>> System details - help us to help you (click on blue link)


Moderators

There are senior members on the forums who serve as Moderators. These volunteers keep the board organized and moving.
Moderators are authorized to: (in order of increasing severity)
Move posts to the correct forums. Many times, members post in the wrong forum. These off-topic posts may impede the normal operation of the forum.
Edit posts. Moderators will edit posts that are offensive or break any of the House Rules.
Delete posts. Posts that cannot be edited to comply with the House Rules will be deleted.
Restrict members. This is one of the last punishments before a member is banned. Restrictions may include placing all new posts in a moderation queue or temporarily banning the offender.
Ban members. The most severe punishment. Three or more moderators or administrators must agree to the ban for this action to occur. Banning is reserved for very severe offenses and members who, after many warnings, fail to comply with the House Rules. Banning is permanent. Bans cannot be removed by the moderators and probably won't be removed by the administration.


The Rules

1. Warez, copyright violation, or any other illegal activity may NOT be linked or expressed in any form. Topics discussing techniques for violating these laws and messages containing locations of web sites or other servers hosting illegal content will be silently removed. Multiple offenses will result in consequences. File names are not required to discuss your issues. If filenames are copyright then do not belong on these forums & will be edited out or post removed. Picture sample attachments in posts must not include copyright infringement.

2. Spamming and excessive advertising will not be tolerated. Commercial advertising is not allowed in any form, including using in signatures.

3. There will be no excessive use of profanity in any forum.

4. There will be no racial, ethnic, or gender based insults, or any other personal attacks.

5. Pictures may be attached to posts and signatures if they are not sexually explicit or offensive. Picture sample attachments in posts must not include copyright infringement.

6. Remember to post in the correct forum. Take your time to look at other threads and see where your post will go. If your post is placed in the wrong forum it will be moved by a moderator. There are specific Gnutella Client sections for LimeWire, Phex, FrostWire, BearShare, Gnucleus, Morpheus, and many more. Please choose the correct section for your problem.

7. If you see a post in the wrong forum or in violation of the House Rules, please contact a moderator via Private Message or the "Report this post to a moderator" link at the bottom of every post. Please do not respond directly to the member - a moderator will do what is required.

8. Any impersonation of a forum member in any mode of communication is strictly prohibited and will result in banning.

9. Multiple copies of the same post will not be tolerated. Post your question, comment, or complaint only once. There is no need to express yourself more than once. Duplicate posts will be deleted with little or no warning. Keep in mind a forum censor may temporarily automatically hold up your post, if you do not see your post, do not post again, it will be dealt with by a moderator within a reasonable time. Authors of multiple copies of same post may be dealt with by moderators within their discrete judgment at the time which may result in warning or infraction points, depending on severity as adjudged by the moderators online.

10. Posts should have descriptive topics. Vague titles such as "Help!", "Why?", and the like may not get enough attention to the contents.

11. Do not divulge anyone's personal information in the forum, not even your own. This includes e-mail addresses, IP addresses, age, house address, and any other distinguishing information. Don´t use eMail addresses in your nick. Reiterating, do not post your email address in posts. This is for your own protection.

12. Signatures may be used as long as they are not offensive or sexually explicit or used for commercial advertising. Commercial weblinks cannot be used under any circumstances and will result in an immediate ban.

13. Dual accounts are not allowed. Cannot explain this more simply. Attempts to set up dual accounts will most likely result in a banning of all forum accounts.

14. Video links may only be posted after you have a tally of two forum posts. Video link posting with less than a 2 post tally are considered as spam. Video link posting with less than a 2 post tally are considered as spam.

15. Failure to show that you have read the forum rules may result in forum rules breach infraction points or warnings awarded against you which may later total up to an automatic temporary or permanent ban. Supplying system details is a prerequisite in most cases, particularly with connection or installation issues.

Violation of any of these rules will bring consequences, determined on a case-by-case basis.


Thank You! Thanks for taking the time to read these forum guidelines. We hope your visit is helpful and mutually beneficial to the entire community.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old May 13th, 2002
Gnutella Veteran
 
Join Date: September 21st, 2001
Posts: 110
gnutellafan is flying high
Default Partial File Sharing Protocol Development

This thread is for discussing and writing an open protocol for sharing partial files across the gnutellanetwork. This feature will greatly increase the amound of resources available to the network. Everyones input is welcome.

Here are two great threads at the_gdf to get started:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_gdf/message/6807
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_gdf/message/6918

Thanks everyone,
GF
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old May 13th, 2002
Gnutella Veteran
 
Join Date: September 21st, 2001
Posts: 110
gnutellafan is flying high
Default PFSP 0.1 - Very Very Rough

Here is a very rough draft:

Partial File Sharing Protocol 0.1


1 Introduction

1.1 Purpose
Creation of an open protocol to allow the sharing of partially downloaded files between gnutella clients. There are many benefits to this and it can be done with the same (or even greater) confidence than the sharing of complete and hashed files.

The best way to share partial files is to use tree hashes. This
approach actually provides a greater confidence than the current full
file hash because the client could confirm segments of the file. The
current full file hash can only confirm that the file is the desired
file after it has been fully downloaded. If there is an error there
is no way to tell were it is and the full file must be discarded.
This could be a huge bandwidth waste, especially if throwing out a
700mb file.

An added bonus of the tree hash method is the ability to resume from
nearly identical files. This solves the problem we are having with
files that are the same but w/ different metadata. For example, as
soon as I play many video files, something in them changes and the
file cannot be swarmed any longer. The same problem exists when the
same song has different meta tags at the end. The current proposed
solution to the problem is to do a second hash of the file without
the portion containing the meta data. This is very file type specific
and offers little additional benefit when compared with the tree hash, which would offer the benefits of true swarming, partial file sharing,
and the ability to share nearly identical files.

For example:

I want to download songx, so I search for it and find it. There are
quite a few versions with the same size, bitrate, ect but they have
different metadata so the hash is different.

Well, with the tree hash you could use all of those sources to swarm
from for the parts of the file that are the same! This would
greatly increase swarming speeds while providing the same security
and confidence we currently have with hashed files!


2 Protocol Definition

2.1 Tiger Tree Hash

A Tiger Tree hash MUST be generated for each file shared by the client calculated by applying the Tiger hash to 1024-byte blocks of a stream, then combining the interim values through a binary hash tree.

Clients MUST NOT share partial files that have not had a Tiger Tree Hash value calculated.



See:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/tigertree/ http://www.cs.technion.ac.il/~biham/Reports/Tiger/ http://bitzi.com/developer/bitprint


2.2 Sub Hash Ranges

Clients MUST store sub ranges of 1mb sizes and may choose to store smaller ranges.


2.3 Transmissions and Display of Tiger Tree Hashes




3.1 Queries and Replies

Queries by clients that can handle Partial File Share MUST indicate this in the query (GGEP?).

All replies of partial files MUST indicate the ranges available and any X-Alternate-Locations for any parts of the file.

Clients SHOULD NOT display partial file results to the user UNLESS the location of a full file is found or the ranges returned cover the range of the full file.


3.1.2 Searching by Sub Hash

Clients MAY search by any 1mb sub hash.


3.2 Requesting Ranges

HTTP Range GETs are the best standard multivendor way to request
parts of larger file.

Clients SHOULD request all required ranges.


3.3 Uploading Partial Files

A client with a complete file SHOULD randomly upload ranges of the file. If ranges of the file are requested then the client SHOULD randomly choose which ranges to supply first. The intention is to propagate the whole file across the network as rapidly as possible. Clients MAY use X-Alternate-Locations to decide which ranges are rarest and preferentially upload those ranges.






3.4 Sharing Partial Files

Clients that are capable of sharing partial files MUST share partial files by default. Client MAY allow users to inactivate the sharing of partial files.









To Do:


-Add a new GGEP extension to queries that specify that you want to
see partial files

- Add a new GGEP extension to queryhits that simply specifies
Percentage complete for partial hits. (a simple partial/full flag
would do as well)

- In an HTTP Get request, add a X-Gnutella-Partial-File header that
lists the IP/Ports of servers thought to at least have X percentage
of a file. Do not list the percentage here.

- Servers that support partial file gets, should also support a new
CGI type request of a style like GET /uri-res/N2PR?
urn:sha1:PLSTHIPQGSSZTS5FJUPAKUZWUGYQYPFB where the returned payload
is a csv file of the tuple (start, stop, active)


-clients need to be able to indicate what the smallest increment of
hash they will provide is. Im not sure it makes sense to store all of
the 1024bit (?) hashes. Anyway, there should be a header indicating
that the client stores hashes as small as X. Data would be the best
way to decide of course but 1mb "feels" like a logical size.

-there should be a mechanism for searching by a sub-hash. I guess if
clients store 1mb hashes it would be possible to search by any of the
1mb hashes but it would probably be less computationaly intesive if
there was an agreed on sub-hash to search by. Im not sure how the
meta data at the start of a file works. If it is all of the same size
regardless of content (and I doubt this) then it would be possible to
search for sub-hashes after the first part of the file to do sub-hash
matches between nearly identicle files with different "early" meta
data. I guess it would make sense to either use the first 1mb or the
second 1mb for searching by sub-hash.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old May 13th, 2002
Gnutella Aficionado
 
Join Date: March 13th, 2002
Location: Aachen
Posts: 832
Taliban is flying high
Default Re: PFSP 0.1 - Very Very Rough

Quote:
The best way to share partial files is to use tree hashes. This
approach actually provides a greater confidence than the current full
file hash because the client could confirm segments of the file. The
current full file hash can only confirm that the file is the desired
file after it has been fully downloaded. If there is an error there
is no way to tell were it is and the full file must be discarded.
I don't think that's really necessary. I mean, you can be quite sure a client doesn't lie about the complete file hash. And I believe the tcp protocol is realiable enough, to be sure the transmitted data is correct. - Maybe run some tests sharing partial files with complete file hashes to see if you really need the tree hash...

Quote:
[...]
The current proposed
solution to the problem is to do a second hash of the file without
the portion containing the meta data. This is very file type specific
and offers little additional benefit when compared with the tree hash, which would offer the benefits of true swarming, partial file sharing,
and the ability to share nearly identical files.
I don't believe the ability to share nearly identical files is critical, especially not for small files like mp3s. - For the bigger files, it might be nice, - but edonkey - not having that ability - works fine, too.

Quote:
[...]

2 Protocol Definition

2.1 Tiger Tree Hash

A Tiger Tree hash MUST be generated for each file shared by the client calculated by applying the Tiger hash to 1024-byte blocks of a stream, then combining the interim values through a binary hash tree.

Clients MUST NOT share partial files that have not had a Tiger Tree Hash value calculated.
Why not? Clients with tree hashes don't have to swarm from partial files without tiger tree hash...

Quote:
[...]

3.1 Queries and Replies

Queries by clients that can handle Partial File Share MUST indicate this in the query (GGEP?).

All replies of partial files MUST indicate the ranges available and any X-Alternate-Locations for any parts of the file.
The X-Alternate-Location was for HTTP connections only, I thought...

Quote:
Clients SHOULD NOT display partial file results to the user UNLESS the location of a full file is found or the ranges returned cover the range of the full file.
Clients should not return partial file results to queries at all, if the query didn't include a hash. (reduces query traffic and serves the same purpose)

Quote:
[...]

3.3 Uploading Partial Files

A client with a complete file SHOULD randomly upload ranges of the file. If ranges of the file are requested then the client SHOULD randomly choose which ranges to supply first. The intention is to propagate the whole file across the network as rapidly as possible. Clients MAY use X-Alternate-Locations to decide which ranges are rarest and preferentially upload those ranges.
That's some kind optimization I wouldn't put into the protocol.

Quote:
3.4 Sharing Partial Files

Clients that are capable of sharing partial files MUST share partial files by default. Client MAY allow users to inactivate the sharing of partial files.
I wouldn't put that into the protocol either.

Quote:
[...]
I'm just curious. - Maybe maybe some people who are interested could try out sharing partial files with hashes of the complete file. I'm certainly going to test it with limewire 2.5 (once the huge code is implemented).

And that's how I would do it: Remote clients return queryreplies of partial files if the file is requested by hash. The local client try's establishing a HTTP1.1 connection to them and requests the ranges of the files it needs.
The remote client (if no other error occurs) answers with a 206 (Partial Content) if it has got a subsection of the requested range and with a 416 (Requested range not satisfiable) if the remote client doesn't.
Then the downloading is done and everybody is happy.

The main advantage I see with this way of handling partial uploads is that it's easy to code, relatively secure (do we need absolute security?). Less changes to the protocol and it has mosts of the benefits your proposal has.

I'd rather try using the hammer I have at home before I go buy a bigger one.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old May 13th, 2002
Gnutella Veteran
 
Join Date: September 21st, 2001
Posts: 110
gnutellafan is flying high
Default security

It is actually rather easy to fake a full file hash, just lie! There is no way for one client to know that the other client lied until it has download the whole file and rehashed it itself. Then, if there is a problem it doesnt know if it was just a mistake in transfering data. If the file was multi-sourced then there is no way to know which of the many clients it downloaded from lied. This is a MAJOR vulnerability with the current gnutella network. One rouge client could search the net, find the size and hash of files, and then use the same file size and hash to respond to ALL queries it can, send garbage data as just a small part of a swarm and destroy thousands or possibly millions of file transfers with minimal bandwith usage.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old May 13th, 2002
Gnutella Aficionado
 
Join Date: March 13th, 2002
Location: Aachen
Posts: 832
Taliban is flying high
Default Re: security

Quote:
It is actually rather easy to fake a full file hash, just lie!
I did not doubt that, but do you believe there will be clients creating fake hashes? A malicious attacker could sabotage the gnutella network much easier than by serving files with fake hashes.

Quote:
[...]
Then, if there is a problem it doesnt know if it was just a mistake in transfering data. If the file was multi-sourced then there is no way to know which of the many clients it downloaded from lied.
It is possible to identify the clients that lied by letting the downloads overlap by a couple of bytes (that's even easier with HTTP1.1), - but I doubt we will have to worry about that. Who would do so? I mean I think it's even illegal under the DMCA!

Quote:
This is a MAJOR vulnerability with the current gnutella network.
There are other vulnerabilities in the gnutella network.

Quote:
One rouge client could search the net, find the size and hash of files, and then use the same file size and hash to respond to ALL queries it can, send garbage data as just a small part of a swarm and destroy thousands or possibly millions of file transfers with minimal bandwith usage.
But that's a rather unlikely scenario and with download overlapping you could recover from that.

I say just give simple partial sharing a try, to see if tree hashes are really necessary. This simple kind of partial sharing could be ready in a month without tedious discussions in the GDF. Your kind of partial sharing will need half a year at least until it's implemented.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old May 17th, 2002
Gnutella Veteran
 
Join Date: September 21st, 2001
Posts: 110
gnutellafan is flying high
Default

Yes, I have no doubt that there will be major attacks on the gnutella network at some point. The argument that there are already so many holes in gnutella security so why not a few more isnt a very good approach. We need to be working to patch up those holes, not creat new ones.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old May 17th, 2002
Disciple
 
Join Date: April 24th, 2002
Posts: 10
RusselHarvey is flying high
Default

In fact, rather than fake file or file segment, corruption of a file segment is more common in partial file transfer.

Without tree hash (or some equivalent mechanism), a single file chunk corruption will not be detected before the entire file downloaded then found corruption so has to be dumped.

People should have at least tried out some of the p2p software that have implemented partila file transfer (e.g. eDonkey, etc), and get some first hand user experiences before jump to argue about whether 'partial file transfer' is necessary and how it should work.

It's quite comfortable to say, that once you've tasted a p2p software which based on 'partial file transfer', you would never want to go back.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old May 18th, 2002
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

eDonkey isn't a good example, since it's one of the most poorly designed p2p-clients out there.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old May 18th, 2002
Gnutella Veteran
 
Join Date: September 21st, 2001
Posts: 110
gnutellafan is flying high
Default

Taliban, the java source for Tiger is available here:

http://www.cryptix.org/products/jce/index.html

It does not have the "Tree" functionality of course.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old May 18th, 2002
Gnutella Aficionado
 
Join Date: March 13th, 2002
Location: Aachen
Posts: 832
Taliban is flying high
Default

Oh I'm not even going to try tiger tree since I'm not a good programmer at all.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: https://www.gnutellaforums.com/general-gnutella-development-discussion/11328-partial-file-sharing-protocol-development.html
Posted By For Type Date
Firefox : Partial File Sharing Protocol (???????? ?????? ??????? ?????) | FireFox 3 This thread Refback November 15th, 2011 08:48 PM
LimeWire Gnutella - LimeWire This thread Refback August 23rd, 2011 05:21 AM
Partial File Sharing Protocol (???????? ?????? ??????? ?????) | ????? Mozilla ?????? This thread Refback April 26th, 2011 10:27 AM
Partial File Sharing Protocol ( ). : LiveInternet - - This thread Refback March 7th, 2011 12:20 PM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Partial File Sharing in LW! et voilà LimeWire Beta Archives 26 July 6th, 2003 02:04 PM
Organize new protocol development Etzi General Gnutella Development Discussion 3 March 16th, 2002 02:38 PM
partial file sharing and other questions Unregistered LimeWire Beta Archives 4 January 21st, 2002 11:31 AM
Release partial file sharing protocol GnutellaFan XoloX Feature Request 2 September 13th, 2001 06:39 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

Copyright © 2020 Gnutella Forums.
All Rights Reserved.