New p2p idea

[vshao]

Recently thought of an idea, and I want to run it by the folks on this forum.

Using a combination of 802.11 and peer to peer network, I think it's entirely possible to bypass the telco carrier or access point to transmit voice / data packets from source to destination. Imagine being able to call your friends and family on a mobile device WITHOUT paying Sprint PCS or Verizon. The idea is that the "peers" will not only serve as the search server, but relay the signals / data along the way. It's almost like having a set of walkie talkies, but stretching them out over long distances, and having other walkie talkies in the middle relying the signals. This can work for voice and data.

The wireless data transmission protocol is already in place, and it's fast - 802.11. The missing technology component are:

1) In addition to searching, each peer must relay the signal as well.

2) While relaying, the message must be protected so that only the destination node can unencrypt.

3) And of course having a bunch of these mobile devices capable of handling the traffic. Probably a Compaq iPaq w/ 802.11 card would do for now.

Let me know what you guys think. I want to get started coding this if there is enough interest!

[efield]

I like it. It will be some coding project though, getting the encryption working, avoiding routing errors, and dealing with bandwidth limitations. I think a voice conversation is 64 kbps, so when bandwidth per call gets lower than that do you drop packets, drop to a lower sampling rate, or drop/offload connections?

Reliability will be most important in getting people to use it and it will also be the most difficult thing to improve.

I found this somewhat related link:
"Avaya strengthens IP phones"
<http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2002/13...7-22-2002.html>
"Hoping to extend its PBX market success into the IP realm, Avaya last week unveiled new IP phones and added Wi-Fi into its IP telephony mix."

[vshao]

It'll be an ambitious project to be sure. Potentially some jerryrigging needs to be done to the 802.11 firmware as well, as I believe there is a limitation to the number of nodes communicating in an " 802.11 ad-hoc" mode. As for reliability - i would say it's one of the huge benefits of p2p. The destination node would receive multiple data packets from different sources along the route, compiled together upon receiving. The duplicity of the network ensures reliability. It's just like how the internet works - with routers all over the place. When one fails, another route can easily be found.

I see a huge potential for this project. I see companies like Spectralink, Avaya as being the customers for this software project. In fact the it's a tremendous value proposition to the end consumers. Instead of a 1 year commitment at $40 or whatever a month, the consumer buys this device and gets free communication FOR LIFE, 24 / 7.

The biggest challenge will be getting a critical mass of the devices spread out over an area for a trial.

[arne_bab]

I see those companies crying out loud as users begin to use Java-Programmable handies (=mobile phones in germany) and just bypass any costs.

Just think about it:

They can't charge you, because you never contact their central servers /station.

Horrible for them, great for you, as long as the phones manage to to find any other phone in calling range. Maybe they would need to do what they do all the time, only on another frequency or so: Sending pulses every minute(or second, but that gets you _much_ electrosmog), stating, that they are there. Everyone, who gets the impulses would have the "ip" (=encryption) of that handy. then you'd assign a signature to each handy, which is tied to the users you know.

When you want to call someone your phone send out the query for the signature, which just gets forwarded, but I can see the phone-industry sending searches for meaningless signatures in huge numbers and using full radio stations to stop that technology.

They will fight against you with all they have, if necessary with nails and teeth.

[Proff]

Before anthing else,
Hello I'm new on borad I'm french and I'm reading your post because P2P protocol intresting me.


I've already think of somhing tike that but it hold some problem like if your relay is shuing down. you must find a backup way but it could be long and you can wait when you tranfer voice.
even if voice with vocoding is only a 12kbit/s stream you risk with a tatly free communication to be overloaded (specialy on the relay level)
I'm continue to work on the subjectbut it looks to have no isues.

[devinemi83]

This does sound really cool. But there are as well many issues with it.

Pros:
For the most part its free.
Anonimity(sp?)- since you really have no identity if used for p2p it would be hard for mpaa or riaa to track you down.
Easy access to the network(in most areas that is).



Cons:
Privacy- the traffic would have to be highly encrypted because we would be sending our data through a system that isnt being run by a professional company but rather by someone we know little or nothing about. Without safty, identity theives would have a field day.
Dependability- Ideally it would act like the internet. But the internet would have many more rebust ways to route traffic. We all know that gnutella many times get weak links that cause problems. Imagine if 100 people are got the feed off of one guy and he shuts down for some reason. In smaller areas or even some suburbs this may well be the case.




If this really gets worked out, this could really help out alot of people. Not just file traders, this could bring the net to many more people.

[cultiv8r]

P.S.: Some of what you described is already being tested (used to deliver SMS messages).

[Burzmali]

The Lag is going to be just un-acceptable. most single pole antennas can only send or recieve, but not both at the same time. this would mean the packets need to be really small with a quick turn around on the transmit-recieves..... add more clients and you get a mess!