then quite bitching and just dont use them. I think BS is the best client out there. I have tried all of the win clients and BS works best for me. I just uncheck the spyware if I dont want it.

All I do is see people complain here. I challenge you to make a better client!!! One that offers superpeers, filehashes, partial file sharing (with hash trees), swarmed dl, support for GGEP with +,-,"", ect, ect, ect....

Until you guys actually write a superior client all you are doing is bitching. BS actually has something to offer. Vinnie may not be the best communicator but he has a great client.

telling the truth is not bitching.

if BS and LW doing bad things, it's not the answer to close both eyes. superpeers, filehash etc are not invented from BS.

I didnt say they invented them. But they have them or are working on them at a faster pace then anyone else.

What are they doing that is bad? They are building this network. Instead of complaining all the time they are writing code. More then I can say for the crowd here!

Unless you have some evidence that they are doing something bad all you are doing is bitching. The network is still interconnected, they are just clumping their clients together. So f**king what?

I still challenge everyone here who cant stop complaining to write a better client. There are quite a few of you. Work together to do something besides troll the gnutella forums. Start from scratch or help with a project like gnucleus. Just do something productive!

They wasn´t the first with multi-segment downloads either!

The first was Xolox a non-commercial client!!!

And the most users think not that bearshare is the best - look at the poll here and zeropaid!

Multi-segment-download is meanwhile standard, only Vinnie wasn´t able to provide a version with it (the version 2.5 is still a beta!)...

AFAIK bearshare has no superpeers yet! Also the idea of their sha1 hashes is from a "PUBLIC" source!

Morgwen

Im not saying who came up with the ideas. I really dont care. I just want them implemented. Yes, 2.5 is still in beta. Why are they behind on multisource? Because they included HUGE first. In my opinion a better choice as it will be more powerfull in the long run.

Xolox was good, it kicked some of the other developers in the butt. But now it is dead, no longer in development!! To bad they didnt/wont release the source. Plus I hated the GUI. Not the point.

I dont care which is the most popular, I just told you what I use. BTW, how scientific do you think zp.com's survey is? Most BS users never go to the site. I rarely do but I never voted. The only people that go there are the ant-BS crowd, so of course they wouldnt choose BS.

BS already has 3.0 code ready to enter testing as soon as 2.5 is shipped.

once again, do something productive!!

I think its "VERY" productive than I tell the people, what they don´t read on bearshare.net!

Yes I think it is because there are always two sides - I want fair play and not more Limewire/bearshare clients which don´t care about the user or other clients!

Yes this is "MY" intention! I want one community - not three seperated communities... but the first step is working together and "fair play", I really don´t see fair play from bearshare or Limewire I see only more spyware, hiring more developers and than praying how good they are! This can do "EVERY" developer, but the most of them are fair and want only to code a good client!

Morgwen

Go outside and hang at the park and talk to people, get a real life. Is there something wrong with the area you live in?

When you want to be #1 and dominate the gnutella world, then your attitude changes to one of doing anything you can to provide your users with downloads, cause all they want to do is suck the net and the #1 clients sucks the best.
No regard to whatthey will do to the net in the long term, or what bandwidth they suck as long as the $$$ flow in.

gnutella is not about ONE client, it is about all clients, one cleint should not be #1

Hi,

I come with an appology and a goodbye.

First I would like to apology for my behaviour of crying out my fears
instead of searching for a diplomatic conversation. Sorry, my post/email
was a "cryout" of some upcoming problems and collected opinions from
the gnutella development community.

It's also a "goodbye" because I withdraw dissapointed from Gnutella
development. Your answers (those from other developers) did
confirm my feelings.

Well, my very personal point of view is that current Gnutella
development has a lack of documentation and structures attracting
more coders and network/protocol specialists. As a matter of fact
development is slow, chaotic for newcomers. In the past I tried to
help and work out solutions. But I see less improvement and I'm not
willing to spend my time anymore while vendors (BS and perhaps also
LW) turning Gnutella into a single/few vendors network where servents
and decisions are not equal and not for the sake of a common
community. For example, clumping together clients of a single vendor
and infecting hundreds and thousands of newbie users with persistant
spyware ... that's not my idea of Gnutella!

Actually I don't want you to stop to cooperate with BS/LW. I wanted
to wake up some developers and make them think about how things are
done today and if you are satisfied? What I don't want is to hold you
back from productivity, improvememts and working together on
Gnutella. To be fair, LW does contribute valueable ideas and papers,
yeah!
I can speak only about me, I do not feel comfortable how things are
done generally, e.g. the take-this-or-die behaviour. But it seems on
the GDF everyone is pretty lucky whith each other. Are you suprised
if more ppl do not want to be part of the GDF?

I would like to suggest to work on a well defined protocol
documentation (RFC), free of proprietray interests. Market shares and
marketing should not be allowed to influence an open protocol design,
because such descisions are contraproductive in a long term. It would
be great to see in a few months Gnutella having superpeers, dynamic
traffic routing, hashs, metadata, chat and (friendly) anti-freeloading
behaviour. FastTrack and eDonkey are still a great source of
inspiration IMHO. However, thx for the fun and the possibility of
learning about P2P.

Greets and good luck with your work, Moak

PS: If someone would like to communicate about alternatives, how
about meeting on friday afternoon/night (23:00 GMT/UTC, 17:00 CST) on
IRC #gnutelladev on IRCnet? A description is available on
http://www.gnutellaforums.com and usually some known faces are
arround.

Moak, use your talents to help us all get rid of the commercial interests and greed on gnutella. Don't give up now!
Post code and patches that don't contribute to their clients.
Make your own client that helps people move away from those clusters. Post code that helps other clients move away from clustering.
Vinnie thinks he can do this, but he doesn't understand we code way better than he does.
And think about that, it's mostly vinnie doing this, he always does this and has been trying to do this since day one.
We got a lucky break when morph made a open source client #1, vinnie can now go suck eggs.
We all used to have to walk on egg shells around him because if he did something nasty (like clustering) we would all be affected by it. NO MORE!
We are just about free of vinnie and the like!
Start your own documentation center and make it the best. RAM is doing a crappy job with his documentation project, please start one and run it for us we need it and someone who cares about docs.
Also remember the small developer doesn't have the time or resources to add all these new protocol ideas all the time so they will pick the best and go with it. It can take a small developer more then 6 months to get something working.
If generic TESTED source code was always available that anyone could use and just plug into their client, and not just some proposal on paper that would help. If the people making proposals would do the work and find out how hard it is to code this stuff, maybe more real gnutella features would be added.
Use your talent to create these proposals with source code.
Sourceforge is free and will host your projects, go check it out.