How about a section

'General Gnutella Developers'

to seperate users questions from developers "stuid high tech" discussions? That way propably more users are attracted to talk about Gnutella's future and developers find a forum to meet and exchange their knowledge and ideas. I think dreams, ideas and knowledge are a key to an improved Gnutella (okay _hard_ work from the client developers is another!).
I know there is not a lot of interest right now. Just an idea, I'm a little bit sorry that Gnutella does not get further developed, or not in any significant speed. Energy was wasted in offtopic discussions (about Spyware, closed-doors-information-policy or civilwars between developers), while other proprietary protocols like FastTrack are currently much more modern, share more files and have more users. Ah, don't forget eDonkey and Audiogalaxy, very famous too, more promising protocolls will come.
Gnutella is (or was?) a promising approach for file sharing, let's envolve!

Happy sharing, Moak

PS: Currently I'm working together with another computer nerd on a way to improve Gnutella behind firewalls/NAT-routers (open source). But seeing the stopping development (and statements from some client developers), I'm running out of motivation.

Yes,

this is a very good idea!

Please think about this CycloCide!

Morgwen

Done.

http://www.gnutellaforums.com/forumd...?s=&forumid=42

thx!

PS: I like the forum ID

Its about freakin time!!!

Hi,
it is unethical and unproductive to work with LW and BS.

First they fool users with spyware. In lack of a finance concept they
bundle 3rd party code, which will spy out hundreds and thousands of
newbies users. As a developer inside gnutella, you do indirect support
spyware or use work that is financed with spyware, I do not feel
comfortable with that in mind.

Second, instead of a well documented and fair discussed protocol, I
see more and more chaotic additions to the protocol (on purpose?). Good
for proprietary companies or closed minded thinking, b/c it will keep
away competitors, very bad for an open protocol and supporting new
developers.

Third, BS (Vinnie alias Freepeers) is well known for a rude and
proprietary thinking. Stubborn, trying to control or dominate develop-
ment. Last of his achievment is blocking 0.4 clients without any real
technical reason, another step forward to split BS from Gnutella.

Fourth, marketing phrases in Gnutella. Isn't it a joke to claim a
v0.6 support in servents? The current v0.6 is just v0.4 protocol + a
new handhake + undocumented chaos + heavy construction site. What
happened to the name of v0.5, wasn't it good enough? Also it's a joke
to spread that all reliable servents have to have 'ultrapeer'
(superpeer wasn't good enough?). Currently, ultragigahyperpeers from LW
are in heavy construction, not reliable. Of course, dynamic traffic
routing and dynamic network structure is our future (as we know from
FastTrack and eDonkey)... it is just a shame that everyone is allready
speaking about LW's 'ultrapeers' is the new hype without having it
working today? A parallel implementation of a new superpeer concept,
traffic routing and new descriptors could become necesarry, less
marketing plz, more innovations.

Fifth, LW's and BS's loud marketing is unfair against other
developers and more reliable servents. Just because thay claim to have
the best or most powerful servent, they do not have it. Unfourtunatley
this loud "we are better then the others" marketing works and I see LW
and BS are often reported as a reference for Gnutella. As a contrast
the users choice is not BS or LW.

[Update]
Sixth, LW and BS slightly/secretly seperate from the general Gnutella
network, each of them prefering their own servents over other servents
and running hostcaches which do provide connections to their own
servents only. Another step towards taking over a bigger userbase and
then splitting up the network to a single vendor controlled network,
instead of an united Gnutella community with a variety of good clients.
[/Update]

Free Gnutella developers think about it. I recommend not to work
together with LW and BS anymore in the current way: It is unethical,
unefficient, slows innovations, less fun and Gnutella suffers.
Instead Gnutella needs a briefly documented protocol (RFC), free of
proprietary thinking, marketing, spyware and egoism. Fair cooperation
and communication is the key.

Thx for listening.

See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_gdf/message/6054, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_gdf/message/6299

You are right that complex things like full XML and other strange things make it hard for the small developer to keep up.
Limewire has a team of 5 or more working on this full time and getting their bills paid.
Kazza pays $4000 a month for a license fee, where the hell do they get that sort of cash? What laws are they bending?
I don't think it's "unethical and unproductive" to work with them, its my choice. Greg of LW is a good front man for PR. Vinnie should take note and hire some 16 yr old for cheap to do his PR, it would be better than what he has been doing.
I know how frustrating this can be, just quit reading the_gdf for a week and you will feel better. Nothing happens there anyway, if a "big" client wants to do something they just will, screw what you have to say.
"well documented and fair discussed protocol" depends on what "RAM" does with his documentation project and so far it only copied what was there. LW and or BS should contribute some $$ towards this.
"Third, BS (Vinnie alias Freepeers) is well known for a rude and proprietary thinking. Stubborn...." and this is news? We all know this.
"Isn't it a joke to claim a v0.6 support in servents?" don't knock the only thing that a the_gdf agreed to as a group in what 1 year now? the_gdf produces nothing but does keep people thinking someone is listening.
"Fifth, LW's and BS's loud marketing is unfair against other developers and more reliable servents" anything not running on windows is the better client due to the underlying OS bugs.

What you need to do is take your gnutella code, rename the connect strings, add some ssh encryption, set up some illegal MP3 computers with 60GB full of MP3's and fake many IP's to show how well it works, and sell it to some idiots that will pay $4000 a month to you like kazza and morph did. Some marketing genius pulled a fast one on them!

I think its stupid to try to earn money with open source and much more stupid to try it with "spyware"... when they have a team of 5 developers, they really should develope other applications too, so they can pay their bills! And remember there are also "FREE" clients out there!

The spyware is the unethical aspect here, not that they try to earn money!

Morgwen

using anything [including spyware] to fund proprietary development of a public/open standard is pretty bad... but the network is also used to share copyrighted material.

LW and BS are bad if they are making //profit//

If they want to earn cash and pay the content holders - making profit for themselves and the media owner.... they need to make everything open.

It's ethically wrong to collect money on another's misfortune [??AA] ... especially when that misfortune based on another's work [ Nullsoft, et. al. ]

LW and BS can create super clients but they can't take from the network and not provide. It can't stand.

Smarter searching, connections and downloads is wanted by all; but at what cost.

Don't work with these clients and don't line their pockets if they will only take the work and walk away when things get rough.

A business model must be discussed, maybe competing clients... but for pay clients can't use //free// bandwidth. They can't exclude a //free// servlet if they are using //free// servlet's bandwidth etc.

My vision is faster PC's and spare bandwidth go to provide better communications on the network.

You should read the posts...

They are not bad beacause they want to make profit they are bad because they do it with spyware!

And what is your point with the copyrighted material? Not all people share "illegal"...

Will you tell us because many users are doing so we now must accept this? Will you tell us if somebody kills a man its OK when an other do the same?

Yes of course we are sharers, we have to accept spyware viruses etc.!
I think the risc of getting caught is more than enough! Yes our risc, our files! Not Limewire or bearshares...

quote:
LW and BS can create super clients but they can't take from the network and not provide. It can't stand.


Who said this? You know what Limewire and bearshare are doing?

http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...&threadid=8782

If they want to earn money with their product they should respect all other clients too! The most don´t want to earn money!

And I think they are far away from the "SUPER" client!

Morgwen