Hey, I knew some greedy Gnutella developers make it to Slashdot somedays... yeah and they did:

Stealware: Kazaa et al Stealing Link Commissions
"We all heard about spyware, well now Kazaa, Morpheus and LimeWire are sneaking a new type of nastiness onto your computer" read more at http://slashdot.org/articles/02/09/2...9.shtml?tid=98

gratulations Limewire & Co!
Okay... cu guys in another forum somedays.
Greets to Morgwen et all.

Yeah, I dared to post a link to that article on /. and NYTimes on the GDF. Since its actually off topic for the GDF, I guess I might as well add my comments about it here...

Here's the response from Greg Bildson to the message I posted on the GDF:

I remember that with the ClickTillUWin incident, they made a similar promise that something like that wouldn't again, by properly researching who they plan to partner with.

I don't feel like trolling, but this kind of thing DOES affect other Gnutella users/developers as well...

This TopMoxie thing isn´t new:

http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...ight=Top+Moxie

The first people discovered it 9 months ago...

I wonder how long they need to fix it... (I wonder if they want to), I think there is still the decision to say until this problem is solveld we don´t provide TopMoxie with Limewire anymore...

Now we shouldn´t wonder when the people leave to fasttrack with 2.700.00 users even the user know the clients are infected because they can´t trust more and more Gnutella clients and Gnutella has only about 130.000 user. Yes such things don´t help the Gnutella net...

Morgwen

Whoa, I just went back to an old thread I started:

http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...ghlight=gratis

In it I ask:

"If I go to amazon.com (for example), of my own accord, TopMoxie redirects my url to make it seem like I was referred there by limewire. Limewire then gets a percentage of the money I spend. Is that not stealing from amazon.com?

If I was visiting ebay.com and clicked their amazon.com banner, ebay would not get the referral, limewire would. Is that not stealing from ebay.com?


Am I incorrect in my knowledge of TopMoxie?"



Morgwen was the first to reply asking where I got my information.

Then, afisk (Limewire developer) replied and acknowledged that this is in fact what TopMoxie (and LimeShop) does. This is where I think the NY Times article got this quote:

That's "pretty accurate.... While I agree that this is really a bit of a scam, it is a way for us to pay salaries while not adversely affecting our users."

Then I replied to afisk, saying, "Thanks for a thouroughly honest and open reply."




NOW someone has deleted afisk's reply!!

So LimeWire, you are NOT HONEST, NOT OPEN, and you had COMPLETE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT TOPMOXIE WAS DOING at least as of March 1st 2002.



By the way, LimeWire, you still have not deleted the following message (of which I have screenshots) ( http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...ight=Top+Moxie ):

afisk (April 22, 2002): "TopMoxie doesn't take any web sites away from anyone. In fact, if you don't pay close attention to the URL listed in your browser, you never know the difference as a user. Basically, we're not redirecting people from certain sites to certain other sites. Rather, we're redirecting you within the same site (so, it still is the same old whatever.com, it's just our affiliate entry into whatever.com, which is exatly the same).

I admit this isn't the most noble business practice in the world, but we're not quite being the Internet gangsters that you're describing (if we were, that would be really, really bad)."


-- No, you're being Internet gansters in a different way!

Another quote from afisk (April 23, 2002):

"I'm not saying that TopMoxie is Amnesty International (although TopMoxie is primarily used by schools and non-profits as a way of raising money). I also don't think I'm hiding behind the corporate veil -- I have been a part of all decisions in including TopMoxie in the program, and I have never implied otherwise. Why have I agreed to include it? Because I think TopMoxie is the best damn spyware going! I'm joking a little bit, but I'm also serious. It does not, in my view, have a negative affect on you as a user. I agree that the corporate partners don't get much out of the deal, but we do promote them heavily through LimeShop and links within LimeWire. As far as other affiliate links, I believe that TopMoxie fixed that issue, although it was a problem in earlier releases."

-- So was there a new release of TopMoxie between March 1 and April 23? Can anyone find a software history on TopMoxie? Did this "fix" fix old LimeShop software?


I have said it before: I like LimeWire. The developers have put in many many hours of work on it. But the methods they have used to "pay salaries" are despicable. LimeWire has a (now CONTINUING) history of obfuscating the truth in their business practices, and I don't trust them anymore.

For a pretty complete history view:

SPYWARE PRO AND CON -- know the [Limewire] history before you download it

http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...ghlight=gratis


Note, this is only my experience with LimeWire, however it appears that other gnutella clients are also involved with the TopMoxie bundle, so this may be of more universal interest.

I also find it alarming that Limewire Forum moderators can simply delete, without note, their own"unfortunate" replies presumably to cover themselves should legal action arise.

It's interesting that Spyware is still off topic in the GDF. I did read the mentioned thread and the response are.... well, a good work for spyware lobbyist Bearshare and Limewire.
In the last days I found more articles popping up, mentioning Morpheus, Kazaa, Limewire or Bearshare. Usually I read words like fooling users, parasites or electronic pick-pocketing.

Here is a Babelfish link to a translated german news page:
http://babel.altavista.com/urltrurl?...p=de_en&tt=url

Also the the New York Times reported:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/27/te...gy/27FREE.html