i am having an incredibly difficult time believing that there is soooooo much brainware behind LW and yet LW has so many problems. for the short time i could get LW up and running it would freeze my computer with the only option of force quitting and restarting. most of the time i couldn't get past "loading core components." i have finally given up and will look for other p2p software. p.s. i'm starting to wonder about some of our institutions of higher learning...and is the military better off now?

No its not true.

VTOLfreak was the first who mentioned this:

http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...&threadid=7357

The only response was that he making false accusations...

THREE months later an other user brought it up again:

http://www.gnutellaforums.com/showth...e&pagenumber=1

At this moment Adam knew that Topmoxie was redirecting links. There was NO word about we told Topmoxie to remove it or something else - INSTEAED he replied something like, its a good solution to pay the bills instead of asking money from the users. And I am sure that it doesn´t need three months to remove a few lines of code. Yes Limewire supported stealing!

And I really wonder why one of you deleted his replies? What do you want to hide? Do you really think the "old" members don´t remember this discussion?

btw did you check if Topmoxie is actually redirecting links or do you believe Topmoxie? I mean LW told us more than one time that they work ONLY with trusted companies, so if you trust them its your fault with stealing the links and with the virus. You have to check it before you release it under your name and tell your user that they could trust it!!!

I also remember that Limewire installed third party stuff and didn´t mention that after you unistall LW the third party stuff stays on your computer. I asked Adam via PM that he should AT LEAST inform the user about it and he promised this to me, nothing happens... I don´t know how its now because I am not going to install LW again...

My memory is different but for this point I have no proofs...

Like me, but it seems that you forget some details...

You know the truth and are denying it like the other developers, so why should I trust you now?

Morgwen

There was never a question about whether or not TopMoxie was changing URLs (to my knowledge, it's not really redirecting any links, it just modifies the HTTP requests) to let LimeWire make money when LimeWire users are shopping online. I don't know if you are aware of the way Amazon for example rewards sites sending people to their website. Basically, if a person buys something at Amazon, Amazon will pay the website who redirected the person to Amazon. If nobody redirected that user to Amazon, Amazon will just keep the money.
The only issue was that TopMoxie did not value the case were another website already claimed that reward for itself so TopMoxie would really steal that reward.
That issue was brought to TopMoxie's attention and it was resolved. LimeWire has no direct control over the TopMoxie sources, they only have an agreement with TopMoxie about what the TopMoxie software may or may not do and how LimeWire will be paid - at least that's the way it usually works.
So in fact LimeWire never could modify any code at all to change the situation.

What do you expect?? We are living in a world where you can either make money or starve. LimeWire is a company after all and there could be certain legal implications involved depending on what statements an employee of a company makes. And even if there weren't, - it still is bad publicity.

It's not about believing or not believing. Two parties have a legal agreement, if one party fails to fulfill it, it can and will be held liable for it.

TopMoxie is per definition not a virus - at least not where I'm living which is outside of cloud cuckoo land. If I license a piece of software and resell it, I cannot always test it to the full. I can only trust that the creator of that software is telling the truth about what his software is doing, even IF the source code WAS available for me to check. If the creator of the software lied about his product, he would have to fear that I may sue him.

People should really start reading the license agreements before downloading and installing software from the internet. If the license agreements states that another software package will be installed this implies that it will not necessarily be removed in cumolo (since it is not part of the same software package).

LimeWire basic displays a page before installing that it will install LimeShop and tells you to view this page if you have any questions:
http://www.limewire.com/english/content/moxiefaq.shtml
In addition, you have to agree to the TopMoxie License Agreements. The LimeWire international installer does not display this information because it does not install TopMoxie and never did.

Truth is relative. What the truth is in the real world, may not be the truth in some distant cloud cuckoo land for example where some words like 'virus' or 'spyware' just have a different meaning.

- And just to clarify: it is not, was not and will never be my intention to imply you were living in such a "cloud cuckoo land".

fixed bad english

If Topmoxie is redirecting or just modify the HTTP requests doesn´t matter - stealing is stealing!

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/3390.cfm

What I expect? I expect in a free forum that NOBODY is censoring, perhaps you didn´t realize that this is www.gnutellaforums.com and not www.limewire.com - do you see a difference here?

This isn´t so easy. The users have no agreement with Topmoxie or other companies ONLY Limewire. The users have only an agreement with Limewire - so Limewire is the one who have to assure me that Topmoxie and other companies don´t spread viruses or steal links. They are guilty for it as long as they bundle the software within their installer. I know you will tell me now something about the license agreement... bla, bla... do you really think that everybody who is using Limeiwre is a lawyer and can understand all the things?

Who said that Topmoxie is a virus? I was referring to the clicktillyouwin virus, you should follow the discussion before you quote small parts of it.

No its not. Truth is what the people believe and not what the developers want the people should believe. At least this is what counts...

Thats why Limewire should mention which software stays on the computer and how I could uninstall it. This is what the user can expect from every program which is paid by ads, after unistalling LW there is no need to "pay" for it!

Morgwen

Before you run any of these programs scan with Spybot and Norton to see whats up in there. hopefully you catch the spies Trojans etc.

I have assessed my options, JJJBBB. I have Norton Anti-Virus, and PestPatrol. But thank you for your suggstions.

deepblue

__________________


"THEY WHO WOULD GIVE UP AN ESSENTIAL LIBERTY FOR TEMPORARY SECURITY, DESERVE NEITHER LIBERTY OR SECURITY."
--Benjamin Franklin

Nope. Doesn't matter who's hosting the forum. If it's the official LimeWire forum, it's normal that the LimeWire people have the say and won't let some zealots cramp their style.

Actually LimeWire users installing the LimeWire version containing TopMoxie have to agree to the TopMoxie license agreements, it even says "TopMoxie" at the top of those license agreements. So the users DO have an agreement with TopMoxie. -> Ergo read them license agreements...

Are you trying to argue legally or ethically??? Legally it is the user's duty to ensure he understands the license agreement. If you are arguing that LimeWire's action were ethically wrong, then I have to say, I don't agree and that's where the discussion ends. Except for the issue with TopMoxie replacing already existing affiliate cookies there was no harm done. This issue has been resolved as soon as it was known and it was not malicious intent but just carelessness on the side of TopMoxie's developers.

Which wasn't a virus either.
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_virus
Btw., it was never proven that it was really malicious.

Common belief has nothing to do with truth. Even Einstein made the one or the other famous comment on the stupidity of "the people". Also, don't make the mistake to confuse your beliefs with the beliefs of the people. People don't care, - for proof see the success of companies like TopMoxie.

You don´t get. The Limewire user didn´t realize that he is making an agreement with an other company. Look how many people here post in the wrong forums because they don´t read the title...

Funny is that they edited only their replies... hmm... why they do this? I think Adam said to much unwanted things - the truth? Such things proof that you can´t trust companies who are trying to hide such things!

Legally? So he has to go to the lawyer first? What do you think if all users would do this? How many money would Limewire earn then?

It is ethically wrong, because LW is depending of these people - the people DON´T need LW they can easily switch to an other client. And I really do not care if you agree or not...

The common believe is the truth... who decides what truth is? You? Me? No the common believe, nobody said that common believe is right!

This is exatly my point. The companies like TopMoxie and Limewire are earning money with the "stupidity of the people" - if the people would realize whats going gone there wouldn´t be such companies like Limewire or TopMoxie the people would switch to an other client!

So for me this discussion is over. Its normal that you defend LW you are a co-coder so I wasn´t really surprised...

Morgwen

deepblue,

I realize that all men can not be trusted (without it being earned), it is in humanity's nature to lie, steal, cheat and cause all sorts of other, trouble. But you are making some very strong remarks about a man you do not know. Nor can you prove your statements about the president. Therefore I suggest you book the next available flight to France. I think that you might like their socialistic way of life better.

But please, as soon as you can prove any part of what you have accused the prez of; do share with the rest of us. Then we will take the steps that need to be taken, you know, like we did with Bill.

Remember to smile today. :-)

One does hate to get political on a technical forum, particularly in purported defense of someone of ... enthusiastic ... views. However, those who dislike GWB will find themselves at home not only in France but pretty much all of the world outside of the US right now. He's a rather despised man for his foreign policy decisions. The best that can be said of him is that he's united a large number of formerly disparate nations and communities in that they all have a common hate-figure now.

As for liar, thief and terrorist I agree only someone with access to a magical fact machine could tell, but one thing he's definately not is popular.